It's an intense one, and I hope you can read with your own ability to embrace openness as I explore these ideas with curiousity, flexibility and fluidity; perhaps an embodiment of ecological process
Calling your trimming experience "slave labor" really struck me sideways, especially given that this piece is exploring race. I thought that phrase had very specific connotations in the US and that white folks should best avoid using it to describe their experiences unless they were truly in inescapable bondage.
I hear that. Sometimes it is slave labor for some folks who are unable to leave or get out of the working situations or are taken advantage of and the work being very hard and repetitive all day, day in and day out with a boss being horrible to you. And even threatening your life or refusing to pay you after you worked for months under horrible conditions. But, it was a choice for most folks, and a privilege in some ways, so you’re right in that using that word is inappropriate in this context especially when referring to folks who chose to be there even if the conditions sucked and felt disempowering. Rarely did I see people of color working in those worlds when there was money to be had despite the conditions and when the market tanked, the folks who ended up literally in a situation that would more resemble this word, it was folks of color.
Agree with Lucas here— using the term slave labor here seems off… as much as I am sure your work situation sucked… your body wasn’t legally owned by the weed grower, that person didn’t automatically own any children you might have given birth to, didn’t have the legal right to make reproductive choices for you, beat you, torture you, or sell you or your children to another person. You’re a serious writer and so I know you know words matter—it’s worth considering how misusing this term could (I’m sure unintentionally) minimize one of the worst and most destructive institutions in US/world history and contribute to making it even more difficult to reckon with then it already is. Thanks for considering this perspective.
yeah, i commented above admitting it was an inappropriate use of the word. I didn't go and edit it and take it out so that the dialogue here is still relevant. My personal experience, like I said above, wasn't actually 'enslavement' but certainly others in the industry experience it, even if they went into it not thinking it would be the case. Often with folks who end up getting kidnapped esp. femmes, or migrant workers who took over the work once it became not that well paid for American and European trimmers. I do think about the meaning of words a lot, as I write about this regularly. I probably could have said instead, labor that is highly repetitive and often demeaning as even choosing to be there, you are treated not well. Certainly I was told sometimes I could not leave if I wanted to keep the job or get paid, or my life was threatened because we were not seen as real humans, or I worked in 30 degree temps practically outside... or in rooms without windows for months on end while a grower would come in and yell at us for having a stain on the floor, but it still wasn't the same as enslavement. All that said, my ancestors in the south where my family has been 5 generations enslaved black folks, and I ultimately benefited from that legacy. I used to write about some of that more publicly but I was getting threatened from folks where I grew up, or told I was lying or making things up so I made some of that writing invisible for now. all that to say, you're right that it isn't the right words to use in that. context.
I suppose I can relate on some level. I grew up Mormon and the stereotypical Mormon has blond hair and blue eyes (many Mormons have Swedish ancestry).
Mormon books and scriptures directly attempt to explain the reason white people "deserve" to displace the people that were already here, calling them idle, lazy, wicked, etc. Mormons used to take Native American children from their homes to "educate" them, forcing them to act Western and forget their culture and language. Mormons teach that the more righteous you are, the lighter your skin tone will be. Missionaries are sent to Latin America and Africa to teach "If you live the teachings, in just a few generations, your grandchildren will be white and rich." These narratives persist until this day. Mormons teach that we have to treat everything like a farm. We have to sow "good seeds" and pluck out any weeds. Not coincidentally, Mormons tend to be pro-Israel, pro-Western, and pro-capitalism.
I hope we can develop better narratives that treat everyone as equals. We all deserve to connect with the earth and land. We don't need to force "education", capitalism, and consumerism upon the "primitive" people. The more in harmony with nature we are, the more satisfied we will be to live and let live.
thanks for your reply and sharing your experience growing up mormon and how race and eugenics plays out in the religion. i have been a bit stressed about this piece because it isn't a complete set of thoughts and i am trying to subvert some duality here by exploring some ideas that are stressful or icky, or not a neat package of content for some to consume.. and that there will be backlash for it. but i know the explorations are important.
Thank you for putting your ideas out in the open even if they don't feel 100% rock solid. I too often feel stressed about people's reactions to my writings, but the exploration is mine and it's necessary.
I also wanted to clarify that Mormons don't actively teach the race stuff anymore, but it still lingers in the culture. Grandpas and Uncles will say things that will make you realize that these ideas are still alive and well. Maybe one day we can stop othering completely.
Calling your trimming experience "slave labor" really struck me sideways, especially given that this piece is exploring race. I thought that phrase had very specific connotations in the US and that white folks should best avoid using it to describe their experiences unless they were truly in inescapable bondage.
I hear that. Sometimes it is slave labor for some folks who are unable to leave or get out of the working situations or are taken advantage of and the work being very hard and repetitive all day, day in and day out with a boss being horrible to you. And even threatening your life or refusing to pay you after you worked for months under horrible conditions. But, it was a choice for most folks, and a privilege in some ways, so you’re right in that using that word is inappropriate in this context especially when referring to folks who chose to be there even if the conditions sucked and felt disempowering. Rarely did I see people of color working in those worlds when there was money to be had despite the conditions and when the market tanked, the folks who ended up literally in a situation that would more resemble this word, it was folks of color.
Agree with Lucas here— using the term slave labor here seems off… as much as I am sure your work situation sucked… your body wasn’t legally owned by the weed grower, that person didn’t automatically own any children you might have given birth to, didn’t have the legal right to make reproductive choices for you, beat you, torture you, or sell you or your children to another person. You’re a serious writer and so I know you know words matter—it’s worth considering how misusing this term could (I’m sure unintentionally) minimize one of the worst and most destructive institutions in US/world history and contribute to making it even more difficult to reckon with then it already is. Thanks for considering this perspective.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It’s important to consider the impact of our words.
for sure, always learning, navigating, figuring it out in the dynamic way were swimming through culture
yeah, i commented above admitting it was an inappropriate use of the word. I didn't go and edit it and take it out so that the dialogue here is still relevant. My personal experience, like I said above, wasn't actually 'enslavement' but certainly others in the industry experience it, even if they went into it not thinking it would be the case. Often with folks who end up getting kidnapped esp. femmes, or migrant workers who took over the work once it became not that well paid for American and European trimmers. I do think about the meaning of words a lot, as I write about this regularly. I probably could have said instead, labor that is highly repetitive and often demeaning as even choosing to be there, you are treated not well. Certainly I was told sometimes I could not leave if I wanted to keep the job or get paid, or my life was threatened because we were not seen as real humans, or I worked in 30 degree temps practically outside... or in rooms without windows for months on end while a grower would come in and yell at us for having a stain on the floor, but it still wasn't the same as enslavement. All that said, my ancestors in the south where my family has been 5 generations enslaved black folks, and I ultimately benefited from that legacy. I used to write about some of that more publicly but I was getting threatened from folks where I grew up, or told I was lying or making things up so I made some of that writing invisible for now. all that to say, you're right that it isn't the right words to use in that. context.
I suppose I can relate on some level. I grew up Mormon and the stereotypical Mormon has blond hair and blue eyes (many Mormons have Swedish ancestry).
Mormon books and scriptures directly attempt to explain the reason white people "deserve" to displace the people that were already here, calling them idle, lazy, wicked, etc. Mormons used to take Native American children from their homes to "educate" them, forcing them to act Western and forget their culture and language. Mormons teach that the more righteous you are, the lighter your skin tone will be. Missionaries are sent to Latin America and Africa to teach "If you live the teachings, in just a few generations, your grandchildren will be white and rich." These narratives persist until this day. Mormons teach that we have to treat everything like a farm. We have to sow "good seeds" and pluck out any weeds. Not coincidentally, Mormons tend to be pro-Israel, pro-Western, and pro-capitalism.
I hope we can develop better narratives that treat everyone as equals. We all deserve to connect with the earth and land. We don't need to force "education", capitalism, and consumerism upon the "primitive" people. The more in harmony with nature we are, the more satisfied we will be to live and let live.
thanks for your reply and sharing your experience growing up mormon and how race and eugenics plays out in the religion. i have been a bit stressed about this piece because it isn't a complete set of thoughts and i am trying to subvert some duality here by exploring some ideas that are stressful or icky, or not a neat package of content for some to consume.. and that there will be backlash for it. but i know the explorations are important.
Thank you for putting your ideas out in the open even if they don't feel 100% rock solid. I too often feel stressed about people's reactions to my writings, but the exploration is mine and it's necessary.
I also wanted to clarify that Mormons don't actively teach the race stuff anymore, but it still lingers in the culture. Grandpas and Uncles will say things that will make you realize that these ideas are still alive and well. Maybe one day we can stop othering completely.